Welcome And Listener Request

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Brilliant Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katie Rose, and this podcast exists to help illuminate the path ahead of you. With expert interviews, clinical pearls, and real client success stories, my intention is to bring you hope for what's possible on this journey, and to give you tools and resources to navigate the ups and downs on the road before you. If you find this podcast helpful, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And I have a big request. If you have a minute, can you leave us a five-star review? And let us know what did you learn, what did you come away with? Did you leave with that spark of hope? This helps more people like you find the podcast. My mission is to support as many humans as possible on their path to become parents. And by you sharing and subscribing, you're part of that mission too. And I'm so grateful for you for being here. Beth is the founder of Born Wild, an initiatory journey guiding highly sensitive visionary women from good girl conditioning into embodied, untamed sovereignty. A TEDx Broadway speaker, somatic mentor, ceremonialist, healing ally with 15, more than 15 years of experience. Right? Like probably going on. More like 16.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Getting close to 16. Yeah. Listen to Ralph.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

You have an MFA, an acting, letting nervous system work, mythic storytelling, archetypal embodiment, and ritual to create immersive transformational thresholds, which Lord knows conception and motherhood is one of the most interesting thresholds that many of us will move through. And Beth calls women back to the wisdom of their bodies and their untamed essence. Getting to spend an entire week with her at a retreat earlier this year. And getting to know, you know, the the real person underneath the work of like having followed you for a while on social media prior to the retreat and being like, ooh, this is like one powerful woman. And then also seeing like the softness and the humor, but also like the great understanding that you bring to this work, even in like these small little moments where we'd be like just walking along a little path, and you'd say something that would just like you wouldn't even realize it. And I would just be like, We're just we're just gonna keep walking.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I was like, maybe it was a really inappropriate joke. I don't know. It could have been an inappropriate joke.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Oh no, the for the inappropriate jokes are like like all of it, all of it very on brand for me. But uh just you you said something that I don't even know if you remember it because it's probably just so embodied in your work of well, yeah, like this is what happens when women feel safe with other women. Right. And that felt so impactful in the work that I do because at the end of the day, so much of our tension around conception comes from lack of feeling safety. So when we can create safety in the body and safety in relationship and safety in the unfolding of the universe, like this is this is when we can call these souls in with I don't know if I want to say greater ease because sometimes it does not feel easy. These thresholds can feel so challenging, but that stood out to me just like the level of witnessing what it feels like to be safe with women and how that can ripple into other areas of life. I don't even know if you remember that comment.

Safety With Women And The Body

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Uh, I I mean I don't. And I also I think the reason I choose experiences like that, especially if I'm there with people that I've been I've been following for a while or that I have trust with, is a lot of the experiences I choose are around um for myself, for my own expansion. They're also what I lead. But when I'm at an expansive edge, it's like, can I choose a container where I trust the spaceholder to call in women who have enough secure attachment within themselves that we can all be in a circle together and see like the soul behind our projections? See um the vulnerability behind other people's masks or their protections as they enter into that. And what felt so sacred about being in that space, and I think about being in spaces where that's protected, is we get a peek into how quickly we can see someone's essence or their soul or their vulnerability when we are in a space where that is the focus and where we're all expected to be in responsibility with our own things that rise up around other women. Um yeah. So that's part of a safety thing is when we feel safe, that is when our authentic self can come out.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you mentioned masks, and so I've worked with that quite a bit in my practice with like noticing how things like perfectionism and people pleasing are keeping us very wound up and makes it very difficult to connect, but also to you know have the nervous system feel like okay, we can send resources towards the reproductive system.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

So can can you speak to like how did how did you end up in this work? How did you end up um helping people unwind from the good girl conditioning?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

That is such a good question. And I also just want to go back to what you shared because I feel like it's so important when you were talking about how the resourcing can go to reproduction when it's not going to self-protection. This is true of anything that we are creating. So, like I'm sure, as you know, and work with the sacral, um, that is this area of creative, it's a creative. Well, the womb is a it's a creative intelligence and portal. And so when we don't feel safe in our bodies or in our reality, it's very difficult to create powerfully from that place. Um, whether we are birthing or incubating, calling in, incubating, birthing a child, or whether we are calling in, incubating, birthing um a body of work or or a certain type of relationship or anything. So I love that you're naming it that way. And safety is not something we can fake, it's something that we have to like you can't pack it. It has to be something that comes through the body. Are we speaking?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Okay. Oh my god. We're laughing. Well, I had joked like before we started, I was like, I I'm probably gonna be nodding so much my earrings are turning into like wind chime. Are they doing it? Yeah, they're doing it. Um, I am laughing because I and I think so many of the women who we like, we've been on these kind of convergent paths have validated this for me that like I like not only can I not fake safety, I cannot fake anything. And being in the presence of fakeness makes me like physically ill. Yeah. Now and so it's just really interesting to call these things forward and name them.

Good Girl Masks And Fertility Stress

SPEAKER_00 8:32

I do think the more in touch we are with our own authenticity and the more we experience out of other humans, and we just realize how good it can get. Like we realize how what kind of intimacy is available. And then I know my system is like, uh, I can't do this anymore. It costs so much energy, the contorting, the masking, the pretending. And I think many of us who are in these fields as being healing allies, or in some way, shape, or form, or disruptors in some way, shape, or form, we're highly sensitive individuals. We're we're highly, we're deeply emotional individuals, or we wouldn't be doing the work that we are doing. And so, like being in environments that do not honor that as sacred can feel very difficult to be in. Um, or feel like, why would we settle for this reality when we couldn't be having a different reality than that one right now? Um, so yeah. Um to answer your question about the good girl masks from before, I was like, grew your question. I'm so former in here. Better. Um how did I get started? It was such a great question. Here's what I love is like now it's like you can only ever see our journey from way on the other side of it, you know, from way and yeah, it's like we have our origin stories that we tell, but like they keep shifting and changing because at some point we're like, oh, I see more now.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I thought that the story was this, the story was that. You know, so I've been on podcast so long now.

Beth’s Origin Story And Sensitivity

Motherhood As A Fast Initiation

SPEAKER_00 10:08

It's like I'm like, what was my origin story 10 years ago? And I would have said something very different from what I'm now seeing. And what I now understand is um I've always been who I am in this moment and what I've always been doing what I do in this moment, the ways that I have done it, or the the extent of the freedom I have experienced while doing it has shifted and changed. But I think our our adaptive child, aka good girl conditioning, aka good girl, aka patriarchal daughter, which is what I talk them about them in my lens and all the different masks that they wear. Um, there's still always been this part of us that's underneath that never goes away and is trying to influence where the conditioning is going. It's like, okay, I guess we have these five options. So, like this is the best option out of these five, or we still get to maintain some sort of authenticity. Let's do it. For me, I've always been very sensitive. I've always been, I didn't realize had ADHD from a very young age, did not know that until my child was diagnosed with ADHD, as we're hearing more and more from women these days, because women were so severely underdiagnosed. Um, and uh the women's nervous system in general is highly sensitive. So when you pack that on top of it, um, or anxiety or something like that, from a very young age, um, I was very imaginative, very artistic. Um, my set my system was very easily affected. Like I would throw up a lot, I would get migraines a lot, I was um anxious a lot of the time. And I was an artist. And the best way I could find as a child to start to honor my authenticity was to choose a career in acting. Because at the time, acting was this outlet for me. And I talk about this a lot in my work that I think a lot of um women who are like me, they get started in artistic paths because that artistic path is sort of the seer that they don't have in their external life. So it is like they might not be able to have their authenticity be experienced by their village, right? Or by their parents in the way that um that would feel really great. They're not allowed to be too much in some ways, but with an artistic path, you kind of are allowed to be too much, and it's seen and it's appreciated. And then it starts to become something that's achievement-based pretty early. So the thing that saved a lot of the women like me very early on from feeling overwhelmed and completely disconnected is going to be the artistic path. For me, that was performing. And so I chose the um the a life of the performer. I got the MFA, I went to school for it, I got the MFA, I got the agent, I got the manager. But there was this deep wounding that was driving so much of why I was doing what I was doing. And there was so much that I was putting up with in that career, which was deeply harmful to my being. It was deeply harmful to my relationship with my body, um, to my autonomy, to my power. And so I started, I became a coach as a way to just start to have some money on the side, but that quickly turned into loving coaching and it was started with health coaching. And that became my um kind of salve at that time. I started kind of healing myself and my body image issues through um learning how to coach others and coach myself at the same time. And so I was doing a lot of food and body freedom work at the time. But what I didn't realize is I was still very much wearing the mask of the good girl, wearing the mask of the patriarchal daughter, trying to be, and it wasn't like I was always successful at it. The sponsoring motivation was always trying to be like a good person, trying to be a good daughter, always giving myself such a hard time for why don't I feel differently than I do inside? Why, why do I avoid people sometimes? Why do I feel these things? Why do I have these thoughts? I want to be a good person, I'm a bad person, and I want to be a good person. And so, so much of what I was doing was trying to be seen by myself as a good person. But there were all these parts of me that were going unintegrated. There was all of this rage, there was all of this grief that I had no idea even existed. There was all of this disassociation and hovering that was happening. Um, and so yes, I was in the artistic career and then I was a coach. And like from the outside, it probably looked like I had it really together. On the inside, I was all over the place. I was on a roller coaster of self-worth and highly disconnected from some parts of my body. Um, I don't think I knew how disconnected I was until motherhood hit. And motherhood is one of those initiations, as I'm sure you know, that like you cannot get away with what you got away with before motherhood. The ways that you coat, the masks that you wore, the way that that, or the way that I, I'll use our language, was trying to architect how I was perceived. Um, trying to be a good version of whatever that was. It was just, it was so hysterically laughable because it was like getting just dunked over and over again. And like those coping mechanisms could not survive that threshold. Um, it's a fast initiator. And as anyone knows who's been through it, that expands your heart rapidly in ways you don't even know are possible and gives you so much like, wow, I am a badass. Like, I'm a total badass. Like I can I will show, I will keep showing up and I will keep doing the thing, and I will even when no part of me wants I'm still here. The devotion is very deep. Um, and any defense mechanisms that were keeping me going became so painful. The masks were cracking. And the way that showed up for me is yes, I was still outpouring as a coach. I was still looked like a successful coach on the outside. I had a podcast at the time, I had many clients, my business was doing better than it ever had been doing. And inside I was slipping, majorly slipping. I was drinking a lot to manage that five to ten, like when the the five to ten at night when things would go haywire. My child was diagnosed. Um, he was diagnosed with ADHD. And for me, that was not the issue as much as having ADHD and not knowing how to care for myself without the same coping mechanisms. And having a child who had so much wildfire that I did not know how to contain was so torturous for my own system at the time that it was just sort of like by and then COVID hit. So it was being like ripped apart at the seams. And that's often what it feels like when we are in what you know and I know from the feminine journey as a descent, as a dark woods moment, as a there's no path. Whatever path you thought there was, like the path has disappeared. There's no what is where even are you? What's underneath your feet? It can feel like there's so much grief. Like all the things like I thought parenthood was gonna be like this, but it's COVID and I can't see anybody, and I can't manage in any of the ways that I would have. And none of this was what I thought it was gonna be. And yet there was so much magic in the unexpected, like there was so much magic and sweetness at that time. But there was such a massive reorganization of my internal world. And that is where the crumbs came in to start to shift things. So that was the, yeah.

Why Being Seen Changes Everything

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yes, a massive reorganization. And I think they're everyone will have their own version of that. And for so many, it's motherhood. And for a lot of the people I work with, it's the infertility piece of that. It's you know, the the life plan not going the way we wanted the life plan to go. Yeah. And so, yes, all of the coping mechanisms, the like, well, I'm gonna take my supplements perfectly and I'm gonna eat perfectly, and I'm gonna check my things off on the to-do list that I'm supposed to be doing to optimize here, and it's not fucking working. And then what's wrong with me? And like thing, the the masks start to crumble. Yeah. And the Western medical system doesn't do anything to address that. It's just a conveyor belt of like, oh, well, you haven't gotten pregnant yet. Have you tried IV? Have you tried IVF? Have you considered donor eggs? Well, there's always adoption. And I think when we can have the tools and the resources and the people, the safe people to help build the bridge between the crumbling mass and the who are you becoming what possible on the other side of this. We can't force this, we can't predict what the outcome is gonna be. We can't make any guarantees on any of it. But gosh, if we can learn this stuff even before motherhood, like one, it might help us actually get pregnant and stay pregnant. But two, it's like for those of us who had very, very challenging initiations into motherhood because we didn't have the resources and we were still clinging to the masks.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

What would be possible if we had these skills and resources and human village before motherhood?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Oh, I say that all the time to some of the women who have worked with me because I've had a lot of women come in, luckily, when they're still before they've had children, before they've gotten married. And I I always just say, I'm so glad you're finding this now. It's oh, there's any time is good to find it, right? But I'm so glad you're finding this now because you don't need to struggle in the same way that I did. If you can't, if you know how to stay with yourself, if these masks start crumbling beforehand, if you start to work with your protector parts differently now, I call those the good girl protector archetypes. There's lots of different language and lots of IFS and with lots of different sorts and of you know, different modalities, call them different things, then and if you can like just start to educate yourself on, I think a lot of times people avoid looking at the potential pain that can look like they're like, I don't want to know. A few times when I've started to tell women about my motherhood journey, they get very they shut down and they don't, they don't want to know, don't affect my motherhood journey. It's not that don't, and I was like, okay, no, I don't, I'm not yours, there's no one that's the same. I'm not trying, I'm not trying to upset you or scare you. Um and I do, I will definitely pull back if I feel like I've I've come on too strong in that way. But it's important, I feel like, and I remember when I had my baby shower, somebody saying something like that to me, like it's it's okay if you don't always enjoy it. And I remember feeling annoyed at the time and being like, why don't you take your motherhood journey and go stop with your projection on the other side of the island? So, like I understand both sides. And there's something about if it does get rocky, just knowing that this is a part of the metamorphosis process and nothing has gone wrong, especially in our generation, as so many women are waking up at a rapid pace. Like it is so possible to start to release these things before we have children, if we decide to do that, to do it, to use the initiation as we are, you know, through something like IVF or through a fertility journey to start to let those masks crack and heal, that there's no wrong time to allow that to start to happen naturally. Um, because it makes everything so much more beautiful. Um it does. It so does.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

And I mean, I hate like the bullshit kind of talk with positivity, spiritual bypassing of like everything happens for a reason. And I think there's there is so much truth in my bones that like we are all called to our life experience in such a way that there is wisdom available. Yeah, I love the way you put that. Yeah. And how we choose to navigate those thresholds and what wisdom we choose to carry from it can really change us. And so for the whole like the whole body of work that like people can't change, and like I call bullshit on I have seen such immense change in myself and so many of the clients I've worked with who have chosen to show up to this from a place of I don't know what to do, but I'm willing to do it differently. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I love that you said that because you know, that everything happens for a reason. Um, it often shuts down the very real tantrum and grieving process that has to happen, and that's a part of the process. Um, I think as we get closer to the truth of who we are, you know, that life does have a way of handing us things that break our hearts and break our expectations. And there is a pot, and there's such a possibility that they break us open into a completely different experience of humility, empathy, gratitude, all of these things. And I also know in the moment, there's nothing uh like hearing uh uh you, this is happening for a reason, is so dismissive of the reality. And so much all the time, all we really need is to be seen in our pain. Like that's that's the hardest part is the um what the body always just needs is I see you and you are not alone and tell me more. And I see you and you're not alone and tell me more. They the body needs a seer, a specific seer for our experience. And it's really helpful to have seers who have been through what we have been through because they understand these details that no one else can understand. So if you have been, I have not been through issues with the fertility journey, but I have as being somebody who's neurodivergent with a child who's neurodivergent, and that is a unique experience. Not everyone's going to understand that. So when I find the accounts or when I find the people who are like, I get it, Beth, I get what your 5 to 8 p.m. is like. I get it. And because of that, like I'm gonna tell you, here's how I get it, and I'm gonna give you one more. Here's what you deserve, and here's because you there's something about that, the unique detail of it, that that when we feel seen or known in something, just allows the entire body to relax a level deeper and feel less alone. And so when you're talking about we need people to help us get through, I think we also need people who share our own journey very like there's a lot of similarity because they will get it in a way. You know, if women are having issues, you know, or having initiations through a fertility journey, for example, I'm like, we got to find you women who are going through the same thing you are going through or who have been through the same thing that you've been through, because I'm not gonna be enough, no matter how much I try or I empathize. And it's the same with, you know, parents of, you know, neurodivergent children who are neurodivergent, of like, you got to find those groups. You got to find those people to be like, oh, I see, oh, I get it. And that's part of where the devotion comes in because I know now if anyone comes to me that I have a personal relationship with and they're like, oh, I think something's going on with my kid, and I also think something's going on with me. I'm like, I'm a resource anytime. Like if you have any questions, like I can't do it for everybody in the world, right? But like, I'm like, there's no, it's just because how would I not help somebody with a little bit of information if they ask for it? I never had them, I never had anybody going, this is normal. This is not you. Oh my God, yeah, that's hard. Oh God, that is so hard. And that's probably all I would have needed, but no one could meet me there at that time. And that's part of what makes it so agonizing is the being alone.

The Dark Side Of Online Support

SPEAKER_02 27:39

The being alone. And I do like, I want to add my own like little bit of caution. And I that so my my first experience with a situation where I felt so alone and unseen was when I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitis at 20 years old. So the chronic bladder pain condition where it essentially feels like you have a urinary tract infection 24-7.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And so my mind would spin out. And of course, 20 years old, like I did not have tools for this. And so my mind would spin out sometimes if I had gone like a few days without symptoms or like a lower level, and then it would start to peak as like, okay, well, like, is this actually an infection? And am I gonna, you know, is if I ignore it, is it gonna escalate into a kidney infection and then I'm gonna die? Or is this just a flare and I need to do something to deal with the flare? And you know, unfortunately, like even if I was supposedly seeing the best urologist in the state, like their tools were not helping. And so I went on some online forums.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Okay, and this is 20 years ago, so like, you know, we have more options now, thank goodness. But it was so depressing. It was so, so depressing. And, you know, there these forums weren't structured in such a way where there was um a skilled facilitator, someone who actually had training in being able to acknowledge like what is hard, where you need more support, etc. It was just problem trances left and right. And I would find myself on these forums at you know, midnight, just feeling like the anxiety was gonna spiral because it was like, oh my God, some of these people have had their bladders removed. Like, how are they living? Like, is this my future? Like, holy fuck, they go, what is like I can't live like this. And it so I found myself noticing a pattern of like when I would visit these various forums, that I was always leaving more anxious or more depressed or more fearful about what my future could look like. And then as I deepened my work in fertility, I noticed that there was a similarity of some of these online forums rather than just being places of like pure support, often places of doom.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

And so I am always like very cautious. And like when I said, like, find people who are going through what you go through. It's like it is very, very helpful to be surrounded by people who have a deep understanding of what you are going through. And I think having a facilitator who is extremely well versed in how to form the framework and form agreements that that provide the safety is just like like so crucial. And it took me a while to really realize like what was happening at 20 years old in those groups, but then later on, you know, maybe 12 years later, entering the the depth of the fertility world and how really dark the mind can go, like what was happening in the fertility forum could feel very similar.

Dark Woods Wisdom And Falling Down

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Oh wow. Thank you so much for saying that. That feels really important. Um, yeah, I think you're so right on. I think number one, what did wind up saving, not saving me, but like I do think when we are in an initiation, there's a certain amount of surrender that we have to, because it's sort of like we don't know how long we're gonna be in this. We don't know. I call these the dark woods. And I remember my therapist when I was going through this at the time, she just kept saying, which I mean, I had a therapist, so I'm so and an amazing therapist. And so there were these lifelines at the time. And I was not speaking to anyone who shared my journey at that time because I was grappling with so much unknown and it was so overwhelming. All the it's like the shame existed almost everywhere in motherhood and drinking, in what how in my experience with my child with other children, with you know, it was just like it was just everywhere, it was just steeped everywhere. And I remember her saying at the time, she would just, she would really just be like, This sucks. And I would be like, But you know, I remember this one time I said to her, but you know what? I think I'm just like, I think everyone's judging me, but I don't think anyone's actually judging me. I think my brain is just telling me that people are judging me to try to like, because it's just scary. And she was like, No, they're judging you. And I said, What? This shoe's so good, right? Because I was like, mental gymnastics galore to get out of just feeling the thing all the time. Cause I was like, I cannot feel that shame. I cannot feel that fear, I cannot feel I can't if I open that door, I'm never actually getting out. So, like, how do I just stay above it all the time? And she was like, They are judging you. What comes up when they're judging you? And I was like, but what if they're not? And she's like, but they are, Beth, they are what you just described. Would you judge someone if you didn't know what you now know and you saw what you saw? And I was like, Yeah, she's like, Okay. So what's coming up right now? And then of course I'd like to lose it and just, you know, go on a crying jag for 20 minutes, and she'd just stay with me, you know, and I'd be like, And at the time, I remember just coming back every week and being like, How am I still here? I thought I'd be done, but she was like, Oh no. You are in the dark woods, Beth. And the dark woods is magical beyond anything you can imagine. There's entire worlds being built here, but you can't see it yet. All you can do is feel your way through, and you're not gonna know you're out of the dark woods until long after you are out. So you will wake up one day and realize you've been out for a couple years, but it's gonna take your system time to believe it even after, you know, because the body takes time to catch up with a new reality. And I was like, okay, so I guess I just need to accept this then, because life is still happening now. She's like, mm-hmm. And she's like, and there's beauty here too. And that was my first, like, okay, what if I started when this happens to actually just stop trying to hover? It's like I imagine like that feeling of anxiety is like when we're about to fall in a chair, you know, that like that comes up when you're like, oh God, I'm falling. And we like think we can still save ourselves from falling on the floor. And I think what I learned was just like fall on the floor. Like it's less painful than the constant bracing. What if you just allowed yourself to fall on the floor? And like, is the floor really that bad? And once I like fell on the floor, I was like, the floor is actually very supportive. The floor is where we can actually once we hit the floor, is where we can start building something new. We can learn how to be with the floor, rise from the floor, honestly. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

And it's also so what having, you know, really related to the hovering above and like how I relate to it. It's like I was just constantly numbing in some way. The numbing was over exercise, the numbing was overwork, the numbing was uh just you know, obsession about eating perfectly, the numbing was you name it, like I found wigs of not feeling the feeling. And this is just so common where I I had a patient who just she said it so succinctly of she's like, Well, I just feel like with the whole emotions that it's gonna be painful and what's the point.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

I know it's I we hear I hear this a lot, yeah. Well, it's from the older generation, not from the younger generation, but yeah.

Why Feeling Emotions Matters

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah, and I so I still get from from time to time where you know, in in meeting someone where they are, and they're like, Yeah, I just don't I don't see the point of feeling the feelings, like that just seems painful and ineffective. Like so, I'm curious to know what your response to that would be is like, well, what's what's the point of feeling?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Hmm, oh, this is so good. Um from what I know about the body, uh if you are repressing anything, um, it's living in the body. And when the uh it's all energy. Um so emotions are just energy. And if they don't find a way to be metabolized, the same way we don't, um, if we don't metabolize, I mean, this is a very old school way of thinking about it, because hormones and all sorts of things, but if we don't metabolize the amount of calories that we eat in a given day, it's going to store somewhere. Um, maybe as inflammation, maybe as adipose tissue, maybe as who it's gonna store somewhere. And it's the same is true of emotional energy. Um, same is true of activation energy. So I think of activation and emotional energy as different. Activation energy is what happens when our system thinks something has gone wrong, thinks we are in danger in some way. And what happens if we don't learn how to work with our emotional energy is that our activation energy almost becomes the first thing our body is always going to. So the activation energy is protecting us from feeling the emotions underneath the activation energy, because our body or we have decided that the emotions are dangerous, that we can't feel them and still stay here and stay okay. And there's a really big reason that we believe that, and the body believes that, because the core wounds that often live in our system that are not metabolized happen from the ages of zero to seven. And we actually couldn't at the time feel those things. We couldn't, our system would never allow us to because we needed co-regulation at the time. And any emotion has a deep need attached to it. So if we are feeling a sense of terror or fear, what we need is safety. What we need is privacy. What we need is to be able to cover ourselves and care for ourselves. And if we felt terror as a kid, what we needed was somebody coming and scooping us up and containing us and helping us to feel safe. If what we were feeling is rage, it's typically because, you know, our boundaries were being crossed in some way. And we weren't, and if we weren't allowed to feel rage, which often children are not allowed to feel, um, and still stay connected to their caregivers, then that is going to get shoved deep down. And what happens is it doesn't go anywhere. It just limits our ability to actually feel positive emotion. So what happens is if we the analogy was used a lot in my embodiment training of you can't play on the high keys if you can't play on the low keys. So you have a certain amount of emotional resilience if you do not like a narrow amount of emotion you can feel. And if you can't go here beyond that, you can't go above it. And so for a lot of the women that I work with, for example, they're highly sensitive. So they learn to disassociate early.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Um, and they might not have even known they were doing it, just hovering above their bodies is like a walking head. Um, I didn't know until I felt like it, what it was like to be. And I was an actor. I mean, I was definitely in my body more than most people were, but I was still not. I was probably living in, I would say, like maybe a fifth of my body. I had no idea what was available in my emotional experience because I was painting with like five colors.

unknown 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Um, so if we can't feel the hard, we actually can't, and we always want to feel the great. That's why people are trying to manifest and come in. It's because, likely, I'm sure, if they're there with you, it's because they're deeply devoted to a certain emotional experience they want. But if they're not willing to feel the things that are blocking that, they are certainly not going to be able to feel the things, even if they do conceive, that come along with the beauty of what it is that they are desiring to create. Because we can create the thing and still feel disconnected.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

And then it's still kind of just like, okay, what's next?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Or it's just the constant thing. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm gonna have a Pinterest perfect baby nursery, but like not present and like really soaking up these moments that see being trapped on the couch under a napping baby, but being stressed about the fact that the dishes aren't done and not like fully absorbing, like this little co-regulating being.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah, it's like the the internal metamorphosis that is deeply connected to as good as it can get as a human being in this life, as this person, if we can't feel those feelings, it just got capped. And I I say this pretty honestly and brutally. I'm like, your experience is capped right now for how good it can get. Until the unmasking and healing and ability to work with what the emotion and the activation energies that is stored in all of our bodies, whether or not we have experienced what like the old school way of thinking about trauma, where it's like, did you, did something happen to you that you can and like for some of us, yeah, things did happen to us. None of us would categorize that necessarily a lot of us wouldn't categorize that as trauma, but yeah, everybody has trauma. And if you have lived in in a patriarchal, white supremacist, capitalist society like we have, and your parents come from that society and your grandparents come from that society, you have generational trauma. That's just a given. You were born into generational trauma being stored into your body. Like that's just the way it is. So until we start to work with what that has created in our systems, we don't really have access to our authentic self from which we even dream up. We have we're like dreaming through the lens of the patriarchal daughter. And unless we do some healing work to feel what's stored, we're just capped with what we can even experience in this life and our addictions because we're always going to be reaching for the next thing to feel something.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

But be like just on the verge of feeling something, like the little, like skirting the edge of the feeling something. While numbing the depth and the pain of it, but like the still seeking for meaning, and it's such an interesting damp that we take ourselves on.

Living In The Body Until The End

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. I mean, I think we're all here on our own soul-awakening metamorphosis journey, no matter what. I think for those of us who live at this time, it includes cultivating emotional capacity, getting back in our bodies. Um, that might not have been the way for our ancestors, you know, pre patriarchy, but for us, that is part of the journey is to get back in and to reclaim our bodies as ours and our presence as ours in this life. Um One of the things this past year, I was I've been speaking to a lot of death doulas, which is interesting because I'm sure you work with a lot of people who are bringing people into the world as doulas as well. And as, you know, and that's such a it's it's so similar to the threshold that a death doula is working with. It's like the same side of the coin. It's like the upside down, you know. And one of the things I've been hearing a lot is that the labor at the end of life and our deaths are very connected to how satisfied we are with the life that we have lived, or if there is a lot of unfinished business that we have not tended to tends to make the struggle, it can be a really beautiful awakening portal that's unlike anything, one of the most sacred experiences of our life. But that's deeply connected to how much we have lived in our bodies here. Because if we don't live in our bodies here, there's a lot more regret at that time. Um I think we're supposed to like live, really live in the body. I think that's the whole thing. And it's hard. Somebody who's sensitive, half the time, I'm just like, how do I get out of this body? This is a lot to feel. I don't want to, and I never have like thoughts like I don't want to like be here in that way. But like where I'm my husband said the other day, give mommy some space. It's a lot to be in her body.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

And I said, that is right. Thank you for it. It is a lot. It is a lot to be in this paramenopausal, ADHD, highly sensitive nervous system. As a mother, doing what I'm doing in the world, I need like a lot of people protecting my bubble.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yes. And so like that my goodness, there's like so many paths we could take this. And I think I want to sort of like weave the like as the mask, like the good girl protector mask is crumbling, and like your system is kind of raw to everything, and you're coming into this body that you've been floating above 75% of the way for an entire lifetime. Like, what do most people require in order to walk this path?

The Wild Daughter Houses Explained

SPEAKER_00 46:36

So I have been really nerding out on this um the archetypal map of the wild daughter. And I first started understanding it through a book called The Night House, which I mean I've understood there's lots of myths and there's lots of mythic. Um okay, Beth, rewind. You know, I'm all over the ADHD. So in any feminine journey, as we know, if you read Maureen Murdoch and if you meet if you listen to anyone who's written extensively about the the heroine's journey being different than that of the hero, that men have been taught, and I think we were even talking about this at the retreat we were at, men have been taught to actually transcend from their bodies, and that the hero's journey is like transcending out of their bodies into the higher realms closer to some sort of spiritual experience. And for women, the archetypal journey is descending more deeply into the earth. The, and I'm not exactly sure the hero's journey is supposed to be that way or not, but what we do know is the way it works in the feminine journey, and this is painted in myth time and time and time again in fairy tale and myth. It's in literally every culture um that we could imagine that did not even touch one another. Um, it is Osiris and uh Ishtar and Osiris, no, not Osiris. Ishtar and Osiris, no. Isis in in Osiris, it is Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Not that that is a myth necessarily, but we see these archetypal pathways. Um, we see it in Anana, the descent of Inanna. There's also it's in Quetzakuato's journey. Like, so all of these cultures that at the time would not have touched each other, they name the feminine journey. And that is one of a descent and a release of all of these ego attachments, all of these ideas of who we were, and we reach ego death, and then we rise into a different level of understanding around the human experience and what love is. And it's a fiercely um loving journey, it's difficult, and it happens when a woman is ready for it. It is deeply connected to how good it can get. So we call this the descent and the rise, but there's also another archetypal map that I've I can see in my work, and it's been painted in myth as well. And I started learning about these different houses of the wild daughter as they come through a lot of different myth and fairy tale. And it really deeply correlated to the good girl work that I do. And so when I started studying these different houses, um what I started to see is the second house is where most women start to see the masks crack. So that was a really long way of saying the second house is where women start to see the masks crack.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

What is that even like, like assuming that you're talking to someone who has like no understanding of mythical archetypes? Like, what does second house even mean? Yeah.

Group Containers That Build Safety

SPEAKER_00 49:36

So we have our first house. Um, I wish I could just show you that. Um we have our first house, which is going to be our house of origin. So this is going to be where we grew up. This is going to be the attachment patterns that form in childhood. Our community, our village, the group think of that community or village. Um, if we're living in these times, we come from generational patriarchal trauma. You know, if we look at our parents, at least I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm 43. If we look at my parents' generation, they're the boomers, the mind. Before that came, you know, there's depression, the depression, the Great Depression. They lived through multiple world wars. There's a lot of trauma in that generation, a lot of immigration at that time. My grandmother lived through occupation in Ireland, lived through many world wars, had very few options as a woman. You know, her whole life was in the hands of um the men in her life. And um they were not always kind and at times incredibly abusive. And that was just the way things were. And she was very dignified and she was very disassociated. And, you know, and then there's my mother's generation, and then there's my generation. And so we all have this in a different way where we're coming in with this patriarchal generational trauma. But this particular group of women that, you know, you and I are and the generation behind us, um, we really have this potential to be cycle breakers in a completely different way than other generations, because we have access to therapy as a mainstream thing, because we have access to um somatic practices and trauma healing, because we have access to things like EMDR, plant medicine, embodiment work, breath work, things that actually heal the body and this and are working with the mind, the mind body as a whole, rather than just addressing different parts of our body, because we have a uh we have access to more information around how all of this even formed. Um, women have the ability to write about this and publish information about this that helps us see this. Now, when we talk about the map of the archetypal daughter, the first um or of the wild daughter, the first house is going to be our house of origin. So this is just, you know, we come into the world and we have our wild, authentic essence. And then we also have our very real human needs for things like safety, attunement, um, uh compassion, um, that we're allowed to be our authentic selves as we are without being stifled. And a lot of times with our previous generations, that simply was not possible. And they were not aware of any of this. Like not aware this was even a thing. And so there's a lot of attachment trauma in this generation. And the the thing that's interesting is that we understand it as such, and we understand that there's a path to start to shift it instead of just somebody's personality or they're a good or bad person, you know? So in this house of origin, we are our young self. And then in the second house, we leave, we build a life. We take everything we learned, um, still doing our best with our authentic essence to channel it somewhere, but deeply conditioned by the patriarchy and the society that we live in. And so I call this the good girl grown up. Like we build beautiful lives, beautiful lives. But a lot of times what I see at this phase is that women build a life, and then either there's an initiation where they cannot continue the life the way it's gone, they can't cope in the ways that they have, or they start to wake up to this sense of longing for more, and everything feels. People are like, this is what my Saturn return. It kind of like corresponds a lot of times with the Saturn return, you know, of just like, is this it? Like, I want more. This isn't, this isn't cutting it. What is this? And that is sort of what I call the wild daughter starting to wake up in the system and come online more. You know, maybe they do something that they're like, I can't believe I did that. They cheat on somebody for the first time, or they you're not saying that's the wild daughter, but it's the kind of waking up to something is not fitting here. And I've made choices based on a previous self that are no longer fitting. And this is where they tend to find me or used to find me. And that's when they start to enter into the house of healing. So that's the third house. And that's going to be where women start to find whatever modality, right, helps them. A lot of times this is going to be body-based embodiment work, is really potent for this and can make it the transformation can be much faster than trying to do it through something like traditional therapy because we work with the body directly, but therapy is also very helpful. I use therapy at this stage, and it was also very helpful. Um, they they're gonna find the modalities that work for them. They're going to be deepening their relationship with others because this is really important. In so it needs to be group work. That's what I was gonna say. It needs to be group work at this point. You want to find facilitators who, yes, hold really powerful agreements and who are safe and that you've build trust with. Um, because what's really gonna matter is feeling very seen and known and mirrored in our authentic selves, enough that that authentic self feels able to come online more and more. And a lot of times in this space, we might not be like super honest with everybody outside of the space, like our mom or dad, or like every about what's brewing in us or what's shifting and changing. They might know because we're drawing different boundaries and we're like making different requests, or they might know we're like doing a thing, but they don't understand that already from a metamorphosis perspective, the butterfly has woken up in the caterpillar system. Yep. And caterpillar is dying as the caterpillar. And that was always going to be the way it was. And so those I use this metamorphosis example a lot. This in in alchemy, this is the calcination process. So it's the drying out and cracking process. That's the house too. And in metamorphosis, it's when the imaginal cells start to wake up in the caterpillar. So they heal in that in the house of healing. They start to become affirmed and seen and known in who they are becoming. And a lot of times they're going to be in like safe contained spaces at this time that allow agreements to be held where there is um someone who is, like you shared, holding the container to make sure that people are treating each other in a certain way, that the healing is a natural byproduct of that. And I find that in these spaces, most of the time, even though there can be projections and there can be some salty moments and there can be, there's such an in deep sisterhood that can form when these agreements are held for us because we don't have to be the one holding them. Somebody else can hold the architecture and we can just sort of surrender and allow ourselves to be present and feel this authentic self coming online. It's very easy, like we spoke about the retreat, to fall in love with people in this place because you see beyond their defenses and you're encouraged to see beyond their defenses, and you don't just stop at, well, they're annoying me, right? Or I don't particularly like them. It doesn't matter. That's not why you're there. Um, you're there to heal, and that means like you're healing through the not letting that part of yourself lead the experience, um, and still honoring them. This is where our stories get told. And this is where people start to believe them and listen and want to hear more. Uh, the stories that don't get tell told, they live in our bodies and they start informing our entire lives. If they can be told, and this can happen through the body, they don't have to be told verbally. You don't ever have to name what happened to you. You can show through art, through expression, through embodiment. Um, we're so scared of renaming it that we're gonna trigger ourselves by renaming it. But what we don't understand is the brain makes it a lot scarier than it actually is in the body.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

I was gonna ask about like with our stories. Yes, and I know that I have learned recently with especially ADHD, the the parts of a story that our brain might latch onto can also distort some of what we end up experiencing can feel so intense because our brain is hyper focused on the way one part of that story went down, and therefore we create bigger meaning out of that piece that is part of you know what is living within us. And and so with storytelling, I I find it so interesting of like the well, what is the thing that actually happened versus what meaning did we create from it versus what is our what is our truth that is valid? And what do we want to create? And how all of this is just you know part of life, but when we can be in that safety of other people who can just hear us and hold us and not try to try to extract more from it, but just be, then there's some space that you can create to, you know, let go of some of the meaning, some of the distortions, and and say, okay, now that I've been able to safely just name it in whatever process, you know, like you said, there's no right one right way. It doesn't have to be that you talk in circles about what happened. Like you can dance it out, you can cry, you can shake, you can create art, you can sing, you can.

Emotional Truth Versus Story Facts

SPEAKER_00 59:37

There's so many paths. But that you are mirrored in it, and so this feels important. It doesn't have to be talking about it. There have been times I've been held in retreats where I'm like almost throwing up wailing, like this this happens. Retreats this happens. When there's a somatic release of some kind. So it doesn't even have to be the story itself, but that the emotional truth of what is being released is being held and loved. Because it's true. What I always say is the true is such a tricky thing when we're talking about stories. Like, oh, and I think this is so hard when we're trying to get repair with people or when we're trying to um trying to orient around what's accurate though. Right. And accuracy matters, of course it does. But you're so right that our body is having an experience, whether or not it's accurate through somebody else's perception. And whatever is coming up in our body deserves to be seen and known, regardless of whether it makes sense for the story. So um when I talk about truths, to me, I always start with what's the emotional truth of what you were experiencing around this, not what happened. Right. The emotional truth can be I'm desperate, I am enraged, I want to hurt somebody. I am so effing done. And I want, you know, and that can be the emotional truth of something, even if that situation does not bear that. Right, right, due to our you know, because it's often triggering the underlayers of what has not been processed yet in our system, and so that deserves to be seen and known. Um so much, yes. Then we can start going and looking at it more like wait, because there is a point where we get to kind of parse out on the bed what actually happened here, what's mine, what's somebody else's, what's the um the dance of nervous systems that were together in that moment? What what's sort of circumstantial? Like that was the perfect storm, sort of like the car accident that I was telling you about this, you know, the this weekend. It's sort of like the the moments that were a car crash happens, like all these things have to happen for that to come together in that moment. Like, what's the unique car crash that just happened? Um we can really only do that from a place of sovereignty or clarity once we have moved through the emotional experience of what it's brought up for on our our younger parts that just got their shit rocked by whatever happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

Yeah. There's an episode I did a few months ago um that I did not give like the specific detail around the story of what happened, but just how my body responded to it was essentially like a trauma echo. Oh, yeah. And the realization of like, ooh, I am responding in this way that some people might deem inappropriate or unwarranted. However, if you had context. Yeah. But either way, it doesn't have to make sense to someone else. So for the women who have had, you know, the trauma from the emergency room where they were having a miscarriage, and the nurse was just like, these things happen. And it's and you know, someone else might be like, Well, these things do happen. And it's like, that's that's not the story that's living in their body. The story that's living in their body is this person did not see me. Yeah. He did not acknowledge the pain that I am in and the grief and the loss of this entire world that I had imagined being possible from this creation. And that is where, you know, having these spaces where we can just release the armor and be seen as so meaningful and healing beyond us. There's ripple effect into our communities when we're willing to be in the spaces where we can heal.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Yeah, I think what you're I it's a practice I brought in a lot in my life is to really see people when I see them. Um not always, but sometimes I'll be like, it's a Saturday, and today I'm gonna really see generally like this is the day. And I'll practice it because it there's something that happens between two beings, and it can't be faked, it can't be I see you. It has to be your full presence in your body, attuning to that individual and catching their soul and your soul through the eyes, and saying, like, I see you. We can say the right words. And it was something I remember somebody who was teaching me nonviolent communication, a therapist who was like, Tell me all the things so that my communication can get better. And he was like, Oh, that's the last piece, like, because you can be really violent with nonviolent communication. You can be really violent using the words and the terms of nonviolent communication, it's nervous system first. You you that matters, and you can be very loving with pretty violent words, and it's actually more loving than nonviolent communication. So it's like because of what matters is what is this coming from? What is this sourced from? It can't be faked. Like, I see you can't be faked. You're in pain can't be faked. I've had somebody say to me, I see how much pain you're in.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

And I'm like for those of you who are listening, you should go on YouTube for that little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

Yeah, no, because it's like you can't make really being willing to open to the vulnerability of being present with another human being. That's like a choice that that's a soul led choice, and it's tender, especially if you feel like you've hurt someone, right? It's so hard. Um But it can be weaponized. Like I see your pain can be weaponized if it's not actually coming from a nervous system that feels open.

Presence That Cannot Be Faked

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

So for someone who might be listening to this and going like having the first realization of the mask and going like shit, I think I've been carrying this good girl mask or perfectionism mask or the variations that these can show up as, and going like, I wonder if this is what's been playing out in my life. And what the what do I do about this? Like, what's the starting point?

Where To Start With Unmasking

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Ooh, great question. So I tend to work with women who are kind of waking up, their wild daughters waking up in the house too. That's oftentimes where they're finding me. But I also have women who find me who've been in healing work for a while, and they're starting to like really want wanting to integrate. Let's say the butterfly is like ready to be born. They're not just cocooning anymore, like this needs to integrate into my entire existence. Or they're kind of working through those initiatory moments that I told you about of like, oh, I'm in a dark woods moment. And where am I? Because typically this is where their medicine lives, like the medicine that they're meant to actually share with the world or help people through their devotional work, lives through this, just like mine was. It was it was baked in there, which I couldn't have known at the time. Um, so somebody who would be curious, there's a couple ways you can get started. There is um the, if you go to my site, I have a good girl protector archetype quiz, which took me a year to build and is very, very detailed. And it's about takes about 10 minutes to do, but then you get your top three archetypes. And I love a good quiz. Oh, yeah. It's a it's a good one. And I use it all the time. We'll we'll link that in the show notes because I we usually use it. It's not just like a freebie that they get, which of course it is free, but like it's it's something that we wind up really using in the beginning of our work together to understand what's going on. Um, and then I also have this somatic um audio course that uh hundreds of women have taken and absolutely love that lead them through the seven gates to deeper authenticity, that lead them through um understanding where the good girl lives in their body, why like start to light the flame of what might already be brewing with the wild daughter or the sacred rebel is another word I use for this intelligence that lives in their body. Um, and so I call that the unmasking. And that is like a pretty low-cost um offer that you can get on my site. Um, or if you take the good girl quiz, you'll also, it'll be offered through that as well. And those are two great places to start. Um, you could take them at any point in your journey, even if you've already been in healing for a long time, because the good girl shows up or the patriarchal donor, they they keep showing up. We we're gonna keep like working with these layers. You don't just get rid of them. You they show up, um, they kind of go back closer and closer to the beginning each time that you meet them. Sort of like that spiral that we we've been learning about. Yeah. Um, we tend to spiral back um and just have a lot more awareness at the new precipice, you know, that we're on in our life. So you can take it at any time.

Retreats And Identity Crossing

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

Oh, so interesting. And I know that we also have a handful of listeners who like are providers and have been in this deep healing work for a really long time. So I would love if you could just share a little bit about this upcoming retreat that you have. Oh, because I like had I known about the timing of it, maybe like six months ago, I would have been like, yeah, it just so can you please speak to that a little bit? Because who never knows? There might be someone hearing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

So this is um, I know it's only so when we're recording this, it's it's March 30th, and I'm not sure when this is going to wind up coming out, but um there is also another retreat like this, not the wild woman retreat, but one in September. So it might also be something that they might be interested in at a later time too. Um, I do these retreats that are really like archetypal, sacred feminine archetypal baptisms, essentially. The first one is a wild woman retreat. It's called, it's called Born Wild, but it really is for women who are at this threshold of having done their healing work. They might even be healers, they might be healing allies. I like I say healing allies instead of healers, um, or artists, or people who are disruptors in some way or who are moving toward trying to heal humans or be a part of the healing of humans and the planet, you know? That's who I tend to work with. And this is really for women who are on the threshold of moving through um the house of healing and the dark woods into what I call the meadow, where they're starting to share their medicine with the world from a more authentic place where they have the wild woman and all of her glory as our guide. And what she's doing is she is um helping us go deeper with our relationship to our Shakti, to the earth, to our ancestors, to the those who came before us. I call these the wild and wise in our ancestral line, the disruptors in our line. And to really have an identity crossing. Because I think a lot of times what's missing and what costs women years is that they're not seen and witnessed in the identity that they are moving into. And then a lot of times these women are not gonna have a lot of other ways for people to really honor what's happening within them, except if they're leading into communities like this. Like their husbands or their partner is not gonna know how to be like, yes, this is a really important moment for the medicine you're claiming from your darkness. I can relate. And that's you know, and you're like, this is the most important thing that's happening in my world. But, you know, and to have people who see it and get it, the depth of what you are working with, um, feels so important for the identity crossing. And Katie, that's what I, Dr. Katie, that's what I had when we were together. Yeah. And that was really important for what I'm now doing and the visibility I'm claiming this year and the body of work coming through is because I created a scenario where I could have that for myself, where I could tell the full story, allow it to be heard, cross through into a new field of possibility and to be essentially reborn into a new version of myself. And I did that for myself because I knew this year had to be the year with what is happening. I knew that there this time needs me more than ever in my wholeness, in my humility, wholeness, but also autonomy, authority, um, like reclamation of all of the things that bring me alive as I do so.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:07

Yeah. And I think we're at a tipping point. And just societally worlds wide, like we're we're at this tipping point where if we don't claim our our protection of Mother Earth, yeah, of matriarchy, of deciding that we want differently for the next generations of children, that you know, as you mentioned earlier, like this is an opportunity for the cycle breakers and really lean in with support.

Becoming A Good Ancestor Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

And it's from such a place of love because we may not see the future that we're actually planting right now. Yeah, we won't. And I'm so grateful, you know. I have not met the wild and wise. I'm I'm deeply grateful for my maternal line, all of them, right? And all and and their resilience and their gifts and everything my mother gave me and the shoulders that I stood on. But she did not have access to what I have access to now. Neither did my grandmother, not by a long shot. And so I can connect now to the women in my line before that who were the disruptors. And there were disruptors, and each of them were the disruptors in their own way. And they were loving enough to pass something forward that is allowing me to live as I do now. And I know I can't save the world for my children, but I can help them learn how to live in it beautifully no matter what. And I can be a good ancestor in passing forward the seeds of everything that I have learned. For great grandchildren, I will never meet that I'll be an ancestor on the other side of the veil for. Yeah. So, and that's like the best part about being fucking alive. Like, let's not erase that is like the ability to make an actual difference is is one of the best parts of being a human. It makes life so beautiful, even when it's hard and dark.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:17

The darkness, and even if that difference is touching one person and saying, I see you. Yeah. From that deep, authentic, unconditionally loving place.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

We have no idea. I mean, Maya Angelou said that we have no idea that the legacy that we're actually leaving. You think you know, but you don't know. It's everyone you've ever touched. Um I just get so turned on by that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

How many people can I touch? And now we've devolved.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

Yeah. Oh my god, I love that. I don't think we can talk that moment. So good.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Kind of touch, but with consent. With consent. Yeah. That's important. Nobody wants to be touched with my aliveness without consent.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

Too much. Maybe that's what I was happening was happening when I was a little kid. It was just too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

There's my aliveness without consent.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:29

Oh my gosh. It's so rich. So rich. Oh, I love it. And I love you, and I'm so grateful for you sharing your wisdom and your work and your story. Thank you. And there is so much medicine in that. And so for our listeners, we'll link in the show notes the quiz, the good role protector quiz, which I'm gonna go take right after this because now I'm like, oh, what's in here? I love it. I love a good curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

Um, since you're a you're a friend, I'll send you all three. You get your top one on there, but you there's all yeah, you'll I will give you the info for all top three since you're like um inside.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

Yeah. I love it. I'm I'm excited. Uh and then just in case, I think I think this episode will be out like live like early April. Um great. Yeah. So I think if anyone is like really ready for the support during an initiation, especially those of you listeners who are healing allies, practitioners, people who have been doing depth work for a while. Um, I can't speak highly enough about um actually experiencing Beth Clayton's energy in person.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:51

And I can't, I cannot wait to hug you again. Um excited to see you. So, yeah, we'll have all of that information in the show notes and that thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm just so appreciative of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

Me too, me too. This was so fun. Thank you.